The Eight PUMA States
November 12, 2008 by Will Bower
There are eight states which John McCain would not have won if the Democrats voting for him had instead voted for Barack Obama.
These states are:
Missouri
Montana
Georgia
South Dakota
Arizona
West Virginia
Kentucky
Louisiana
This represents a total of 64 Electoral votes.
As it stands, the Electoral count is 364/174, Obama.
Had it not been for Democrats voting for McCain, this count would have been 428/110.
The PUMA voting block may not have prevented an Obama presidency, but it *did* prevent Obama from having a Reaganesque win… and thus, with it, his attempt to garner the mantle of being the Democrat’s Ronald Reagan.
And — lest anyone think that these are states which could not have been won by a Democrat anyways — all of these states (with the exception of South Dakota) were won by Bill Clinton in either 1992 or 1996… or both.
Missouri (Clinton 92/96)
Montana (Clinton 92)
Georgia (Clinton 92)
Arizona (Clinton 96)
West Virginia (Clinton 92/96)
Kentucky (Clinton 92/96)
Louisiana (Clinton 92/96)
One problem with your findings. Obama received more votes than Clinton in Missouri, Montana, Georgia, Arizona, and Kentucky. Obama also received more votes in all of those states than Kerry had in 2004. By your logic, the PUMA block did an even better job preventing Kerry from winning those states in 2004.
If you want the actual vote totals, in Missouri, Obama had 400,000 more votes than Clinton’s highest vote total in ‘92 & ‘96. In Montana, Obama, 55,000 more votes than Clinton in ‘92. In Georgia, Obama, 800,000 more votes than Clinton in ‘92. In Arizona, Obama had 295,000 more votes than Clinton in ‘96. In Kentucky, Obama had 86,000 more votes than Clinton’s highest vote totals in ‘92 & ‘96.
But you are right about West Virginia and Louisiana. In West Virginia, Clinton in ‘92 had 30,000 more votes than Obama. In Louisiana, Clinton in ‘96 had 147,000 more votes than Obama.
Of course, Kerry also lost West Virginia and Louisiana in 2004. Did the PUMA block prevent Kerry from winning those states, too?
The above is based on percentages, not on over all tallies.
At the end of the day, it’s percentages that determine elections… i.e. 51% to 49% means more than 510,000 to 490,000… or 51,000 to 49,000, etc.
OMG! That is what you’re clinging to? I still have no clue about what on earth is behind this puma nonsense. You loved Clinton, but because she lost you thought support should go to the republican candidate who doesn’t share her vision for the future - her ideals of where the country should go and how to get there? A candidate who isn’t even pro choice?
There is the scent of suicidal despair in this group, and for my rights as a woman all I can say is I’m very glad that McCain went down. My reproductive rights trump your need to pout in the corner any day.
Wow, now that is a bold statement! Do you have anything to back up your theory?? Did you do a scientific poll? Or are you just grasping at anything to make yourself feel better about Obama’s landslide?
Coalition of Millions, My Ass!
I highly doubt it was a “Coalition of Millions”. It was more like a coalition of a few thousand. I think it’s time for P.U.M.A. to go where the republicans are destined to go for the next 8-12 years. Far Far away. Hopefully during that time, you’ll realize that you were never democrats, and were merely enamored with the fact that a woman was running for president. Considering she and Obama share many of the same views on key issues, this seems to be more likely the truth than anything else I’ve heard come from you guys. Also adding more fuel to the fire is how you guys readily supported Sarah Palin, despite how much of a ditz and ignorant she was.
“Also adding more fuel to the fire is how you guys readily supported Sarah Palin, despite how much of a ditz and ignorant she was.”
You call ignorant a young woman who stood against corruption in her state. She was not even 40 when she took on those old corrupted men in Alaska. Can you say something similar of kenyan boy? Did he stand against Rezko?
Just because Tina Fey made millions with her satire, is up to you to call her ignorant.
Carmelo Jr., she has no idea of what’s going on in the world around her. She doesn’t even know the policies that shape this country, or the rest of the world. She’s a complete joke. She’s so inept, oblivious, and arrogant that it’s pathetic. She’s nothing but talking points, with no real insight into what they mean, or how they will effect anyone. Did you SEE her latest interview? The one where she “pardoned” a turkey while a guy was in the background slaughtering away? I mean really, how oblivious can you be to you surroundings? As for standing up for corruption? Don’t make me laugh. Palin is mired in corruption, shady dealings, ethics violations, and croynism. Apparently, her $500,000 home on the lake in Wasilla was “built into the cost” of that sports complex that ran the town so deeply into debt. How does a part time city official[As pointed out in various news media, Wasilla's executive branch is only part time] and a husband who is was pretty much working as a mid level position for an oil company afford a half-million dollar home with no morgage? Hmmmm. She appointed donars and friends to her campaign to KEY positions in her administration, and most if not all had no formal education in the field or any formal training! This is exactly the type of woman I want running for high elected office. Someone who knows nothing, claims to be an ethics reformer when she herself knows nothing about that, claims to be a fiscal conservative, yet knows nothing about that either. Her stint in Wasilla was so bad, that the republican party had to come and bail her out, and FORCED her to hire a city general manager to run the day to day operations. Essentially she was made into a figurehead who signed the checks. So yea…..she is top flight. Excellent bang up job she did.
Dman4Life,
your assertions are pathetic.
That Sarah Palin acts, talks, reacts and walks like an ordinary person has nothing to do with her knowledge of issues. That she jokes around about herself, politics; that she smiles like a simple person, that she gives informal interviews drinking a soda while some one is stuffing a turkey in the background; that she makes the important remarks about the fact that the second most powerful nation on earth is just a couple of miles from Alaska(her house); that she went to compete in a beauty contest to make some money for college; that she believes in God and is not ashamed of being a Christian and to live by Christian values.
That her looks, her accent, her appearance is something no one can pass around without noticing it, and that is a great source of prime time satire; that she became the mayor of a town of 6 thousand people and the governor of state with less than a million citizens; that she hunts, fishes, lives an ordinary life away from Ivy League schools, away from morally corrupted big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles ; that she is a conservative Republican who admires Ronald Reagan, Abe Lincoln and Frederick Douglas; that she is an Evengelical Christian who believes God created all and we did not come from apes.
That you, who search only between the scripts of a fancy prime time show, or a couple of off the topic interviews; you say she don’t know anything??
Howcome some one don’t know anything if all her life has been working to get herself a college education without being the daughter of a doctor or a PhD; that she always been a fighter in men’s arena. Why are you attacking her? Just because she was a small town mayor? Why is she “inept” when she is the civillian comander in chief of one of the most complex air defense units in the country? When she runs a miltibillion dollars budget state?
Or are you just following the mainstream media: Us, New York Times, MSMBC, Rachael Medows, celebrities magazines, Keith Oberman, etc, etc?
Tell us why you don’t talk about her astonishing VP nomination acceptance speech regarded as one of the best VP nomination speeches in US history. Tell us why you don’t talk about her VP debate when she stood against a veteran of 30 years without looking “inept” or scared. Can you do the same? Can you do a stump speech in front of 40 million people?? Can you, at 44 with minor experience stand and debate a 30 years experienced politician who plagiarized his own college work???
You just show sexism, jealousy and attachment to the extreme left. But people like you were also attacking Lincoln and Reagan just because these men did not have any PhD in knowing things, but had doctorates in being humble and 100%Americans !!!
God has no place in the White House
Ummmm, I’m not the son of a doctor on ANY side of my family and I got a college education. I worked pretty damned hard for mine to. The fact that she attended 6 colleges in 5 years speaks volumes to her ineptness. I don’t care that she’s a hunter, or didn’t go to an ivy league school, or even her accent. But her total lack of knowledge is astounding. And by reading your statement, you confuse being smart, with knowledge. I never accused Sarah Palin of being a stupid person. I accused her of being arrogant, inept, and not having any knowledge of the world and situations around her. Oblivious to her surroundings. There’s a difference. I consider myself a smart person. I graduated college twice and hold an associates degree and master’s degree. I am very knowledgeable in the areas that I studied in[animation, multimedia, computer science, math, civics, political science]. However, in other areas, I am inept. I do not consider myself to be knowledgeable in those areas, nor do I pretend to be. That is the point I am making about Sarah Palin. She may be a smart person, but in the realm of politics, foreign relations, economy, civics, ethics, and knowledge of the world around her she is totally inept and without any knowledge.
Also if you watched the debate you can clearly tell she couldn’t talk about the subjects at hand. I take it you don’t remember the “Well I’m not gonna talk about that. What I will talk about is…..”? Come on, seriously. I was waiting for the moderator to go “No, this is what we will talk about, because this is the topic.”, much like what happened one of the Obama/McCain debates. She didn’t hang with Biden at all. Biden was instructed to treat her with kid gloves, because anyone who follows politics closely knows he could have absolutely slaughtered her in pretty much any and all topics that were presented, especially foreign relations. He could have easily left her looking like George HW Bush was when Clinton debated him. Utterly dumbfounded.
Sure she had a good acceptance speech. But that’s all it was, was a speech. Numbers show that she actually hurt the McCain’s bid for the presidency, especially among women. They felt insulted that the republican party would think that just because Sarah Palin is a woman, they’ll vote for the ticket she is on, despite sharing virtually none of the same viewpoints as her. Her points at best can be described as extreme right. Also, I’m extremely sure that I could do a stump speech if I had a teleprompter too. And it was the same one over and over and over and over again. Even when the stump speech is wrong and has been discredited by damn near everyone in the world, I’m sure I could parrot a teleprompter and index cards.
Also, I’m not attached to the extreme left. I do consider myself a person in the center. But I also do not like when my intelligence is insulted. And that’s what the republican party and Sarah Palin did. I’m all for women. I was even a Hilary supporter, and I didn’t really give Obama a chance at first. I initially wrote him off as this generation’s Jesse Jackson, but he swayed me in a big way. Also, Reagan and Lincoln did know things. They knew the policies that helped govern this country and how it effected the nation at large, they knew foreign relations. In essence, THEY KNEW WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON AROUND THEM IN THE WORLD THEY LIVED IN. To say Sarah Palin knows, is an outright lie.
Dman4Life,
“The fact that she attended 6 colleges in 5 years speaks volumes to her ineptness”
Attending 5 or 10 colleges is not a sign of “ineptness”. Lincoln did not even have a formal education. Read Lincoln’s biographies. He did not know a lot about economics, history, political sciences, civics. it Are you going to call him inept too? Give us a real and valid reason why you call this woman inept! To be mayor, gvernor or president you don’t need to have an IQ of 160. You don’t need to be expert in things. Why you don’t take a look at our past 43 presidents ,vice presidents and speakers of the house?
I bet the only president you have studied in your life is George W. Bush!
Why you just don’t confess you are just following the MSMBCs, the New York Times, Us magazine, Keith Oberman, Rachael Medows, Whoopi Goldberg, Matt Damon, Britney Spears, Madonna.
Why you don’t follow serious, unbiased books, networks and journalists??
Give us a serious and valid reason why you call Sarah Palin arrogant and inept?
“I accused her of being arrogant, inept, and not having any knowledge of the world and situations around her. ”
What situations around her?? The praparing of a turkey in the background while she was giving an INFORMAL INTERVIEW drinking coffee in a farm????
Okay, maybe you are talking about the infamous Troopergate scandal. But a court rulled that she didn’t do anything wrong!! They only found her liable for misuse of her executive power which bunch of governors and presidents has done without even knowing it!!! But your friends of MSMBC had this case like it was the new Watergate! Exagerating facts and hidding stuff to try to destroy her.
Yes, she as done a couple bad interviews, but Hoover, Rooselvelt , Truman, Eisenhower and Nixon were famous for their dozens of bad interviews!!!
Are you going to call these past presidents inept too?? Nixon made an horrible debate with Kennedy but came back 12 years later with the biggest landslide win in US history.
Dman4Life,
you really need a LIFE. But calling “inept” and “arrogant” a woman just because she struggled to get a Bachelors degree and gave a couple of bad interviews is not the way to get that LIFE.
See this woman’s life achievements since she was in High School and come back here calling her “inept” and “arrogant” when you could not even match what this lady has done for her , her family, her community and her state!!!
I need to keep on this Dman4Life’s assertions. Thank you PUMA pundit for this awesome forum!
He or She writes:
“Sure she had a good acceptance speech. But that’s all it was, was a speech. Numbers show that she actually hurt the McCain’s bid for the presidency, especially among women. They felt insulted that the republican party would think that just because Sarah Palin is a woman, they’ll vote for the ticket she is on, despite sharing virtually none of the same viewpoints as her. Her points at best can be described as extreme right. ”
FYI it is reported that Sarah Palin had several difficulties to read the telepromt during her VP acceptance speech!! Did you notice that? Nobody noticed that! Only the speech writers and the staff backstage knew that Sarah Palin’s vp speech was coming out of her heart. Now call this woman “inept”, come on!!I dare you!
Yes, it is a fact that many women did not see her VP pick with good eyes! But it is also reported that McCain had plans to pick a WOMAN as running mate back in June, 2008! Did you read any reports?? Even Larry King heard about the campaign leaks of Condi Rice being that woman!
You must have been under a rock if you have not seen how Sarah Palin helped McCain’s numbers and enthusiasm. Even thousands of Hillary supporters switched for McCain because of Sarah! Could Condi Rice received that same enthusiam?? I don’t think so!
McCain lost because of the economic meltdown and Bush’s last 2 years, NOT because of Sarah Palin! Millions of PUMAs for Palin were the reason why Obama did not get a Reagan electoral vote landslide!!
Most women did not care about Sarah’s views on abortion or her evengelical religion! That was only MSMBC crap and their Obama puppets Tudd Chuck, Mika Brislisky and Rachel Medows!!
Get your stuff right before calling this humble and simple woman “inept” and “arrogant”.
The only thing that most people know about Sarah Palin are those interviews and the debate in which she did come across as arrogant and inept in my opinion.No one can argue the fact that she did energize McCain’s campaign but that energy was only among the republican base.In the polls conducted after the election less than 50 percent were in favor of her as VP.The interviews she has done after the election haven’t helped her at all either as now she has been turned into a running joke.I think now we’ll get a real sense of how she governs since she won’t be able to shakedown the oil companies and redistribute that wealth back to the people of AK
First of all, nobody will ever recieve a Regan-Esque landslide vote ever again in history. There’s too much information, people are too well informed, for that kind of a land slide to happen[unless Sarah Palin runs in 2012 against Barack Obama].
Secondly, I wouldn’t have minded John McCain picking a woman as a running mate. There were dozens of more qualified women out there for McCain to pick as a running mate. None of them I would have had a problem with on levels of actually knowing what is going on in the country and the world at large.
Thirdly, when you attend 5 colleges in 6 years, and only earn 1 degree. It means you dropped out several times. And her education was in journalism, with her only job in journalism was 1 year as a sportscaster in Anchorage. She had aspirations of working for ESPN, but upon learning she’d have to move to Bristol CT……..She quit. That’s the story of her life. Something not going her way? She quits, and makes it look like someone else’s fault that she’s quitting. Her job after she was Mayor of Wasilla. On a board of an oil company. She was required to move to Anchorage, but declined and instead stayed in Wasilla. She was unhappy with the long hours and long travel due to her not moving, and was looking for the escape hatch. The whole wistle blowing where she turned in some other people and then “resigning” was her way out. It was made known to her friends and family that she was not happy and was looking to get out and quit. She had no plausable reason to resign, as no backlash was gonna come her way. But she resigned anyway.
Finally, I have been following politics since mid-way through the 1st Clinton administration, since I was able to get a grasp of what was going on since I was learning about civics, and governments as a freshman in HS. The fact that you said thousands of Hilary supporters switched because of Palin proves my point exactly. Those women were bitter and angry. Despite sharing none of the same values as Hilary Clinton, they threw their hat into the ring of McCain/Palin because of sheer spite. It’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You have to sit back and really look why Palin was picked. It was a purely political move, designed to rally the republican base, who wasn’t so hot about McCain in the first place. There were dozens more qualified female republicans with more experience on the national and worldwide stage out there than Sarah Palin, but they were considered moderate/center people who the base wasn’t particularly hot about. Condaleeza Rice would have been the kiss of death for John McCain. Why in the world after trying to distance himself from George Dubya, would he select someone that was a member of Dubya’s cab? Are you that dense? McCain wanted Leiberman, and the base threatend to stay home. Not vote Obama, but stay home. McCain needed someone who stood for what the extreme right “base” stood for. Highly religious, anti-gay, anti-abortion, someone who believed they were fighting for the “morality” of the United States. That’s what they got with Sarah Palin. A virtual unknown on the national and world stage. But it was a double-edged sword as being a virtual unknown on the national and world stage, means you don’t KNOW anything about the national and world stage. You don’t know the policies that govern the national stage. You don’t know the players on the world stage. The fact that she said she had foreign relations experience because Alaska was in such close proximity to Russia was the first sign that this would not work.
Iceman32_89 and Dman4Life,
Iceman32_89
at least what you write are your personal opinions about Sarah. But hey, of the 5 interviews she has done after the elections only 2 has been FORMAL INTERVIEWS. The rest has been informal, not prepared, at the moment interviews like the one in her home kitchen with Gretta and the one in that Alaska farm “pardoning” a turkey with that guy killing turkeys in the background. Did you even see her performance during the republican governors association meeting? Did you see how those 19 male governors sided by her lead in the press conferences? Did MSMBC talked about that conference? NO because there she showed leadership and competence in a formal environment. But you and the MSMBC puppets Keith Oberman, Rachael Medows just talked about the INFORMAL interview at the Alaska farm drinking coffee and “pardoning” a turkey.
Don’t you see that this woman is just an ordinary woman who drinks coffee, hunts, fishes, dresses with normal clothes, celebrates Thanksgiving, takes care of her 4 kids and go to farms while she is followed by the media and ask her questions? If they start asking her questions while a guy is stuffing turkeys in the background is not Sarah’s fault! She was just answering questions not setting the stage or the camera!
If you want numbers check the polls 6 days after she was picked: they were beating Obama and Biden in white women vote, white men, evangelicals, undecided… the only blocks that McCain was losing were the black, the youth and the Latino vote! At the end, these blocks were the ones who gave Kenyan boy the election! McCain managed to win the white vote by 55%(some 3 million PUMAs included).
Obama leftist loggers were saying that McCain was going to win. Even a black congressman said that Obama needed a miracle to get back on track. That miracle happened on September 16 when The New York Times had in big letters that the Lehman brothers were almost bankrupt.
Stop watching those Obama puppets of MSMBC and start watching unbiased, fair and intelligent cable news!
Now you Dman4Life,
A landslide win can happen in any election if the conditions are set. Obama could had one, but PUMAs and Sarah Palin avoided that. Obama had everything for a landslide win: overwhelming media support, voter fraud, fraudulent and criminal organizations supporting him(e.g. ACORN and the Black Panthers) and more than a half billion in Internet “donations”.
“There were dozens of more qualified women out there for McCain to pick as a running mate.”
We all know there were many “qualified” republican women out there. But none of them were 100% conservative. Some like Condi Rice, Kay Bailey Hutchinson and Meg Whitman had ambiguous stances on important issues. None of these ladies would have had the enthusiastic welcome Sarah Palin had. Call it “political move” or whatever, the fact is that the way McCain handled that pick in the first 24 hours took Obama’s people by surprise.
About your knowledge of the nation and world’s affairs that you say Sarah lacks, did you hear her first speech on world stage? All she said sounded coherent and with knowledge of nation and world affair to millions! She talked about the “glass ceiling” for American women and Hillary Clinton’s legacy. She talked about important issues like national security, energy, and her pro life and strong anti Iran and Russia stance. She talked about her work in Alaska as governor. Was that “lack of knowledge of nation and world affairs” to you?? Or are you just stuck on MSMBC and those Obama puppets Keith Oberman, Rachael Medows and some fake republicans like Colin Powell?
About her private life and her personal struggles and decisions, it is a shame that you bring all that to this forum. You sound like a stalker to me. Nobody cares if a woman takes 10 years to complete a BA; nobody cares if she moves, quit jobs or tries to do other things to better herself or help her family. Who cares that Sarah Palin is not a genius or expert in politics or has an lower IQ than Isaac Newton? I dropped from college and took 6 years to complete my BA and 4 years to complete my masters and now I had to stop my PhD program. Who really cares??
But what about VP to be Joe Biden who is widely reported he plagiarized his college work??
McCain didn’t need Sarah Palin, he was doing fairly well during the summer with the conservatives. But Sarah Palin gave him the enthusiasm and youthful dynamic his campaign lacked and Obama had! Sarah gave him big crowds, big news and helped him send his message to the people. Do you really think Kay Hutchinson or Mitt Ronmey could do that??? Experience and knowledge are not essential to be VP. Dan Quayle did not have much experience and knowledge. Don’t be so sexist. Sarah Palin would have been a great vice president and she will be a great president even when she only has a Bechelors degree in Journalism from a non Ivy League school, but has more life experience and love for this country than our “community organizer” president elect.
Mark my Words that Sarah Palin will run and she will be the GOP nominee making bigger history in 2012 than Kenyan boy in 2008. You must be out of your senses if you can’t see this coming!
i just love your nicknames for everyone,I just think they are so clever.I’ll have you know that I watch news from all perspectives CNN,MSNBC,Fox Entertainment,BBC wherever I can.I also read the paper,Wall Street Journal,Boston Globe as well as my local paper.Any one who watches just MSNBC or Fox Entertainment(I refuse to call it news) is a sheep who deserves to be led to slaughter.
I watched the governers news conference and I saw a group of people who felt uncomfortable standing behind her as if she was the new leader of the party.They were set up and the only smart one was Bobby Jindal who didn’t attend that news conference.
I don’t need my president to be a genius.we’re all only human and we make mistakes but I would like someone who knows the basic fundamentals of government.Who can understand the parameters of her teh position she is seeking.I don’t begrudge the way she talks,I don’t care if she hunts,let her wear her own clothes I don’t care.The whole thing about 150,000 in clothes I thought was nonsense but it did hurt the campaign.the supposed infighting did hurt the campaign.Named or unnamed sources doesn’t matter,when word gets out your a wack job that’s always going to hurt your chances.She wasn’t ready maybe in 4 years who knows but she didn’t come across as someone who is ready to take on job of president.Obama did to me and right now he looks more presidential than the current one we have now who seems content on coasting the next few weeks
Iceman32_89,
you sound more coherent and not so attached to Obama than that other person.
Sarah Palin was as ready as Dan Quayle was to be VP. As ready as Teddy Roosevelt. That “knowledge of nation and world affairs” requirement is just boloney. When are you going to realize that the American voters elect presidents because they find them likeable not because they find them ready or “qualified”.
Reagan was more liked than Carter…Clinton was more likeable than Bush Sr. Bush, Jr. was more likable than Gore. If we elect people for qualifications McCain would have been by far the new president!
Sarah Palin is more likeable than Obama and Biden combined. But she was not on the top of the ticket!
Obama was elected not too much for being likable than for being BLACK and YOUNG and being against Bush.
When are you people going to confess that your attacks on Sarah Palin have no coherent and logical foundations based on historical facts, but based on ridiculous left wing bias.
Sarah Palin has it all: attractiveness, youth, executive and command experience, business experience, real life experiences(mother, wife, housewife, business owner), a college degree(although not from famous schools), articulate talk, a Christian background with no scary or criminal associations; a good reputation(at least better than Obama). Willingness to learn and improve herself.
Her pentecostal believes are problems only for atheists, Muslims, agnostics and criminals. Not for the mainstream American.
Confess, this lady has it all! Think for a moment without that MSMBC and The New York Time crap. This lady is as ready or more than Kenyan boy.
More comments!!
Iceman32_89,
besides watching MSNBC(I call it Nazi Biased Cynical network) and CNN plus reading the Wall Street Journal, I argue you to read classic literature on politics, economics, journalism, political science, marketing, history of American politics, social psychology , history and philosophy.
Learn about all our past presidents…their lives and aspirations. Learn about our political parties and the people who shaped them and are shaping them now. Read about American women struggles and sacrifices . This will give you some tools other than just the maintream media to give opinions on people and politics.
I also argue you to learn more about our Armed Forces, their structure and organization. Plus learn a little about our executive, legislative and judicial powers.
“Polls” and the mainstream media won’t give you the knowledge these sources will give you.
If you look at her scolastic history, it’s not as if she left school, for a short period, then re-enrolled. She dropped out, went to another school, dropped out, went to another school, dropped out, went to another school with NO gaps inbetween. That does not suggest any kind of personal hardship in one’s life. That shows lack of commitment, and a lack of any kind of focus.
Just because she referenced Hilary Clinton as an obvious ploy as to try and rally disenfranchised Clinton supporters to her side in a speech after saying not so nice things about her previously at one of the very same governor’s conferences you mentioned does not mean she has a grasp of national policies and world politics or foreign affairs. And if you did look at that governor’s conference meeting, she contradicted herself several times during her various speeches, and had to be ushered off stage one times. The governors there looked like deer in headlights and you could clearly read their body language as they stood behind her. And that body language said “If this is the leader of our party, we’re in trouble” Bobby Jindal had the sense to stay away from that landmine.
And you said also illustrates another point. The fact that the “dozens” of other more qualified female republicans would not have appeased the base due to their moderate/center leanings goes to show how closed off the republican party has become in the last 10 years. It’s become a party of petty differences, small issues, small ideas, division, and xenophobia. Many former republican stalwarts such as Colin Powell said it best. They didn’t leave the party, the party left me. The republican party went from a big tent party, to a small tent party looking to only appease the religious/moral right. Their base has become the xenophobic, uneducated, highly religious, closed minded, and upper middle class-wealthy white americans.
The way Obama and his people treated Palin was masterful. They let her do all the talking. The more she talk, the bigger hole she dug for herself and McCain. Not one ad mentioned Sarah Palin or her short comings. They let it all come out on it’s own because that’s what happens when you fail to properly vet someone in this day and age. This is not the 80s. This is the 21st century where information is readily available on someone, and news programs are too numerous to hide anything from anyone. People say she was picked on, and I say that is BS. If her name was Sam Palin, she would have been laughed out of the political limelight and sent back to Wasilla on the first thing smoking. Also her total lack of knowledge became even more apparent when the McCain campaign hid her away, and didn’t have her do any solo interviews for the LONGEST time after the announcement of her being tapped as the VP nominee.
Also, I do not care about Sarah Palin having a lower IQ than Isaac Newton. I do like for people to know what the hell is going on, and know what the hell they are talking about. Have you not seen the Katie Couric interview? Even her own people said Katie was MORE THAN FAIR with the questons. There were no “Gotcha” questions. She couldn’t answer them. She talked in circles. She wasn’t coherent with what she was talking about. Her own handlers even had trouble preparing her for the debate against Biden. They may as well wrote on her hand in sharpie because her answers and responses were so canned and parroted. Even in the joint interview she did with McCain. Alot of her answers made McCain physically cringe and he looked like he wanted to reach over and literally touch someone and not in a good way.
I’m not going off what Olberman, and MADDOW[Atleast spell her name right], or CNN, DailyKos, DrudgeReport, or whatever other media you wanna name is saying about her. I’m looking stuff up about her. I’ve done my own investigating, and come to my own conclusions about her. And my conclusion still remains the same. She lacks the knowledge on national affairs[dealings in her own state are regarded as LOCAL], and world affairs. She’s utterly arrogant in her lack of knowledge in that she insults my intelligence[and apprently millions of others] by claiming to be something she is clearly not to all who have half a brain. And hopefully the republican party smartens up and realizes that it needs to become a party of big ideas, all inclusive, and a party of understanding and unity. Not a party of small petty differences, extreme narrow minded views, or of “morality” because not everyone shares the same set of morals as another person, and they certainly don’t need to be saved from their own convictions and standards.
Well thanks Carmelo I’ll take your advice under advisement cuz like Obama I’ll listen to you especially if I don’t agree with you.I do however find it amusing that you would ask me to read up on the different branches of the government since Mrs.Palin doesn’t know what they are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H1hKaHDSvg
I do take offense with the fact that you think he won because he was black.As a black man myself I felt that he was the right man for the job.I’ll give you a little personal history:
I was set to vote for McCain.I felt that he was the man for the job.Even after Palin was picked as his running mate I was down with it.Even after the Gibson and Couric interviews and even after that horrible debate performance I was behind him but then the economy tanked.What did McCain do?he suspended his campaign and went back to Washington to figure out something to do,days before a debate which would have been the perfect platform for him to discuss a plan that would help to stabalize the economy.He never did that.Obama at least appeared to be calm and handle it in stride and looked presidential about it.In response to that instead of coming up with ideas the McCain-Palin ticket went on the attack.Started going very negative and that turned me off to both of them.Health care is a big issue in my family and McCain;s healthcare plan was ridiculous to me.So was Sarah the sole reason I voted for Obama..no she can kill all the caribou and wear all the designer clothes she wants.I did not trust McCain and Palin to handle the economy and teh 2 wars we are currently fighting.I gave them a chance but her arrogance reminds me of George Bush and it’s something I was sick of
Dman4Life and Iceman32_89 ‘
good discussion, but I might need to say “here you go again” and “say ain’t so Joe”
First Dman4Life ,
You write:
“If you look at her scholastic history, it’s not as if she left school, for a short period, then re-enrolled. She dropped out, went to another school, dropped out, went to another school, dropped out, went to another school with NO gaps in between. ”
You must be talking about her ACADEMIC history, not scholastic. Many people drop from schools, get transfer to others schools, drop from there and transfer to another school. That is nothing rare today!
Many students struggle with money, motivation, relocation and family problems. Are you really so interested in Sarah Palin college work? At least she had a diploma. Late but sure. She had it at last! Who really cares about that crap?
You sound angry and prejudiced about other people motivation. You saw things in the Republican Governors conference that no one else saw. Where did you get that the other male governors were angry at Sarah Palin? Yes, she got all the media attention, so? She just came back from being the VP nominee! It might have been some jealousy but these governors are grown up men! They understood and sided by Sarah’s lead.
Where the heck did you get that the GOP has become so “close off in the past 10 years”???? What proof do you give us that shows that these other “qualified republican women” could not have “appeased” the conservative base of the GOP?? What are you talking about? FYI the Republican party has been the same party for the last 30 years. It is the same party of Ronald Reagan, the same party of Condi Rice, the same party of Colin Powell, the same party of George Bush. Yes, within the same party they have different views. Some are “moderate”(pro abortion, pro gay marriage, pro immigration reform, anti gun, etc). Some are conservatives(pro life, pro strong military, pro closing the borders, anti same sex marriage, statehood for Puerto Rico, etc) . They have compassion ed republicans(some welfare, some social aid for the poor, federal programs, etc) But the common denominator of being a Republican are the ideals of freedom, equality, free market, love for the country and trust in God.
What nonsense and prejudiced bias are you talking about?? Are you one of those folks that think the GOP is a racist party?? Did you know that the GOP was the party who freed the slaves? The party who fought against segregation and the Ku Klux Klan? Did you know that Clarence Thomas and Alan Keyes are ultra conservative black republicans?
“The way Obama and his people treated Palin was masterful.”
You call masterful attacking a candidate’s family? You call masterful going into her personal life ? You think just because McCain lost, is all over for his running mate? You think because McCain lost it was Sarah Palin’s loss too? McCain is finished, yes, but Sarah Palin has just started to shine.
This statement of yours is just a kicker: “She’s utterly arrogant in her lack of knowledge in that she insults my intelligence[and apparently millions of others]”
How come some one is arrogant by showing lack of knowledge?? How can someone insult others by showing lack of knowledge. In any case that some one insults him/herself not others.
You know, I had to correct your aberrant bad punctuation. HOW CAN YOU ATTACK SARAH PALIN INTELLIGENCE IF YOU CAN’T EVEN SPELL??
Now you Iceman32_89,
so you trusted more in Obama to fix the economy after the Lehman brothers fall out? Before that you was in the tank for McCain and Palin? Is that what you are trying to say?? Or is that another illogical and nonsense reason to vote for some one who wants to spread your wealth and has been associated with criminals, racists and terrorists??
“I did not trust McCain and Palin to handle the economy and the 2 wars we are currently fighting”
So you trust more to handle these two wars a person who attacked our troops saying they were criminals killing civilians and some one who wants to invade Pakistan?
Sorry but you whole comment is a bunch of boloney and nonsense.
If I pretended to show knowledge in an area where I obviously do not have any, in a forum where people have this knowledge, wouldn’t you consider me arrogant for even trying to trojan horse my way in under the guise of being something that I am clearly not? That is what Sarah Palin is. She was arrogant in her lack of knowledge because she thought that the public at large would not find her out, and once she was found out, the harder and desperately she fought to prove that she did belong. The only problem being, the harder she fought, the more she proved that she didn’t belong in any way shape or form.
Also, I do not remember ANY CANDIDATE, be it Biden, Obama, McCain, or Palin attacking family. The information that came out about Palin’s family, started in the blogosphere, then came to ahead in the media. I know that Fox News attempted to drag Michelle Obama down by refering to her as Barack’s “baby mama”, like she was some hood rat who just happened to have two of Barack’s children. The RNC independently of McCain’s wishes ran ads trying to say Obama was not taking care of his extended family in Kenya, by trying to paint them as some charity case living out in the streets and scraping to get by when that was as far from the truth as you could possibly get. If Obama and the DNC wanted to get nasty, they could have. They could have easily taken the low road by saying how Sarah Palin is anti-abortion even in the most extreme of situations, and how she’s highly religious, and how she portrays this image while her eldest daughter is out there running around like a wild child, getting pregnant, under-aged drinking, dressing up in lingerie and posting it up on myspace, generally slutting it up. But they didn’t do that. They could have easily attacked McCain’s character and his family by saying how Cindy should be in jail for essentially stealing drugs and money from her own foundation, and how he essentially cheated on his 1st wife because she became crippled due to an accident, and how he’s a notorious cheater, and his current marriage is a result of cheating on his wife? They could have, but they didn’t. Nobody did as a matter of fact. Not even the DNC or people acting independently of the DNC because Barack and Joe declared family attacks OFF LIMITS.
Getting back to Sarah Palin’s troubles in acadamia. You think she had monitary troubles? As Charlie Murphy would say “NOPE! WRONG!” She was a habitual transferer because she’d grown tired of her surroundings and just didn’t FEEL like staying at the particular school. First school was University of Hawaii-Hilo. She and her friends THOUGHT they were gonna just relax in the location of the school was in a section Hawaii that had more rain than sun, so she didn’t even register for CLASS and dropped out after 1 semester! College #2 was Hawaii Pac University at Honolulu. She actually stayed an entire school year before giving up because she’d grown disenfranchised with Hawaii. College #3 was North Idaho College in Coeur d’Alene. She did not stay there very long and moved onto College #4 University of Idaho in Moscow at the end of her sophomore year because she wanted to be closer to her brother who played running back at the same school! She says she wished to continue her education in Journalism but North Idaho College has a better Journalism program than University of Idaho! College #5 was just outside of her hometown in Wasilla at Matanuska-Susitna Community College just to be closer to her husband Todd. There was no academic advantage in transfering to a Community College. Then she transfered back to University of Idaho after ONLY a semester back home where she FINALLY finished her undergrad study in Journalism. So……..I dare you to find where money came into an issue when you transfer constantly from school to school to school, going across 3 different states and 5 different colleges within 6 years? FOH![I'll leave you to guess what that means, but it's blatantly obvious].
The GOP may have once been the party that faught the KKK and freed the slaves[though that was a side effect of the true intentions if you bone up on your history], but it’s far from that now as evidant by the “HE’S A NIGGER!” calls that where heard from Palin and McCain rallies. The Republican party is not even the same party is was 30 years ago during Regan’s rise to power. The republican party has become the party of social and economic difference. They’ve become a party of the religious right and moral MINORITY. Want proof? The republican party has become the party that doesn’t want a woman to decide what she can and cannot do with her OWN BODY! Did you know that 99% of Pro-lifers are for the death penalty? 95% of them would never EVER dream of adopting a child, much less offer assistance to a single parent struggling to raise said child. I’m not against pro-lifers, but they should keep their views to themselves as it’s not THEIR body or their call as to what that person does with their body. They’ve also become a party of being anti-homosexual because the religious minority deems it immoral, and unnatural despite since the beginning of time, there have been doccuments, paintings, scrolls depicting straight aswell as homosexual acts. They also wish to try and define marriage as a religious and holy sanctuary that should be protected at all times. I’m sorry, but Marriage and religion are BOTH man made entities. And what about those who are not religious[such as myself], if you want to take their word on marriage being a sacred religious institution, they’re not acknowledging my marriage which was done by a justice of the peace because I refuse to acknowledge the jewish book of fairy tales and superstition as law. So yes, the republican party in the last 10 years HAS become a small tent party.
Dman4Life,
There you go again!
maybe the articulate way Sarah Palin talks trying to cover a lot of things in a short sentence gives you the creeps. Have you heard how she tried to cover her thoughts about energy independence while making reference to what Kathy Couric asked her about what newspapers she reads?? Did you notice how Kathy Couric jumped from serious matters like Sarah’s position on social issues to why she thinks living close to Russia gives her foreign policy experience?? How can you answer questions like those? I saw her trying to make her important campaign points while Cathy kept on referring to frivolous topics to try to get her; avoiding asking her questions on topics she is expert in. Just like her interview with Gibson! But at least Gibson’s questions were more direct and straight to the important points.
” The information that came out about Palin’s family, started in the blogosphere, then came to ahead in the media. ”
Please try to remember that were Obama’s surrogates that started their smear just 3 hours after Sarah Palin gave her speech as VP pick!! Those were official Obama’s campaign attacks! And the whole nation perceived them as such! The media was just the Obama’s front line of attack against Sarah Palin but everybody knows those attacks were articulated by the Obama people and his puppets in the media! They were desperately trying to find things because the GOP now has a WOMAN running mate.
Now about Sarah Palin’s academic history since you seems to love her college years(just like a good stalker). All you say against her are COMMON problems, issues and decisions many students face during their college years! Who cares about that?? Haven’t you read about Herbert’s Hoover college years at Stanford? How this president even covered facts, moved, said crazy stuff, changed his mind about courses and classes, etc, etc?? Haven’t you read about Harry Truman’s struggles, bad decisions, erratic moves whiles trying to get a college degree which he never accomplished? Who really cares?? Harry S. Truman is the only US vice president and President who never completed a college degree. BUT no one called him idiot, or not ready for the presidency! Nobody attacked Roosevelt when he picked him as VP. No one attacked Bush, Sr when he picked Dan Quayle as Obama’s campaign attacked McCain for Sarah’s pick!
You write:
“The GOP may have once been the party that fought the KKK and freed the slaves[though that was a side effect of the true intentions if you bone up on your history], but it’s far from that now as evident by the “HE’S A NIGGER!” calls that where heard from Palin and McCain rallies.”
So you confess that the GOP fought against the KKK and freed the slaves. But bring some offensive epithets from McCain-Palin rallies to say the GOP, McCain and Palin are racists??
Now your incredible facts lacking statement:
“I’m sorry, but Marriage and religion are BOTH man made entities. And what about those who are not religious[such as myself], if you want to take their word on marriage being a sacred religious institution, they’re not acknowledging my marriage which was done by a justice of the peace because I refuse to acknowledge the Jewish book of fairy tales and superstition as law. ”
Where did you get that religion and marriage are man made entities? Marriage is not an “entity”. Marriage is an action on which people unite sexually and emotionally to procreate. Nobody invented marriage! This action has always been with mankind!
Religion has always been with mankind. Faith in something that can’t be seen has always been in people’s mind since the beginning! Even if you are an atheist you are having the faith” that God doesn’t exists.
Faith is part of the human being. Without faith you are just a piece of wood. Faith is the driven force that made humanity.
You really need to find a forum were you can bring all your nonsense and illogical presumptions. I don’t think you can win in this one!
Wait wait wait…………Time out. So you’re saying, as soon as man became a sentient being……..RELIGION was at the forefront of his mind? Man please. You are just stupid now. Faith and religion are two totally different things. Faith is the belief that something is there, even though you have no tangible proof of such. I take it you are a believer in god, gods, deities, what have you. Even though there is no tangible proof of such a being, you still believe that it exists. That is your FAITH. Religion is the practice of rituals in relation to whatever higher power you happen to believe in. Aztecs and Mayans worshiped the Sun. They offered up sacrifices to it in order to appease and curry favor with the Sun. That was their RELIGION. Not their FAITH. Christians and all offshoots of that set believe that god sent his son to earth, wrote down 10 laws on some rocks somewhere, and essentially follow these practices in order to curry favor and earn some great reward when they die. That is RELIGION. Religion is a man made entity weather you like to believe it or not. If you take all the spooky language and big words out of religion, and simplified it. You’d realize how full of superstition, bigotry, hatred, unequality, and falsehoods it is.
Marriage is also a man made entity. It is not man’s instinctual nature to choose a mate, settle down with that ONE person, and live out their life devoted to that singular person. Man was CONDITIONED to do that by the advent of the idea called Marriage, Unions, Joining, etc… Man’s natural instinct was to ensure the continuation of the species by mating and having as many offspring as possible. If you ever took a science class in evolution, you’d know this. But then again, you probably don’t believe in that either.
As for the attacks on Palin’s family, please find these attacks authorized by Obama. Because you’re just spouting nonsense. Don’t you think if Obama went after Palin’s family, or anyone in the DNC or affiliated with the DNC, the RNC and GOP wouldn’t have let it go, and would have brought it up any chance they could? Come on now, really. Please find these attacks. AHORA.
As for the Katie Couric interview, seriously. Her own party came out and said Couric was more than fair with her questions. The fact that Palin couldn’t give a straight answer to any of them, even questions regarding herself is where the problems came out. Couric also interviewed McCain, Obama, and Biden, and NONE of them seemed to have problems answering questions about themselves, aswell as providing relevant and actual answers to the political questions and not just parroting talking points. She did the same thing with Charlie Gibson, and he was trying to actively help her out, yet she still Epic Failed.
Also, I truly feel sorry for you if you do not see how the Republican party has changed over the years. Because even when Regan rose to power, they didn’t cater to the religious/moral minority. That only started in the last 10-12 years. If you don’t see that it’s become a small tent party, then the only explanation is that you are somehow included in that very small tent.
The fact that Sarah Palin is a journalism major makes it more appaling to me that she is so inept when it comes to the media and makes me question her judgement even more.she’s a political hack who is only capable of parroting the talking points that are put before her.When pressed to elaborate that’s when she would get into trouble.That being said I don’t see her going away anytime soon.The media is fascinated with her and she does have a rabid fan base as evidenced by that disturbing commercial.I’ll never begrudge or belittle someone for supporting someone I don’t agree with.I just want to understand.
As far as religion is concerned,I’ve been at odds with my god.My faith has wavered at times but ultimately I do believe in a higher being who watches over us.What we have to keep in mind however is that the bible or whatever religious tome that you follow is a collection of stories written by man as told by man.could the stories be true? Could they be embellishments?I believe they are true but I can understand how someone could be skeptical about religion and faith and that its made up bs.
Dman4Life,
“Faith and religion are two totally different things.”
Religion is faith at work! Religion is just an organized form of beliefs. Religion cannot exist without faith.
Marx wrote “religion is the opium of the nations”. He was talking about the driven force that make man believes in things that can’t be seen but he is certain that exist. He was talking about organized religions, yes, BUT by attacking religions he was also attacking faith. You can’t take faith out of religion as you can’t take marriage out of procreation.
Marx failed not because he tried to materialize the intangible, but because he did not visualize what he was seeing or refused to see and acknowledge : a third social class.
Detaching faith from religion is like detaching life from an unborn baby, who even when he/she has not born yet, is a new and unique living human being.
“Mayans and Aztecs worshiped the sun”, yes, this was faith. But we now call it ancient beliefs, but it was a form of religion.
That man was able to “organize” a system of faith, that does not means he “invented” religion!
That man was able to “organize” the union of men and women into procreative social entities (families), that does not means he “invented” marriage!
I really hope I didn’t lose you !
You wrote:
“As for the attacks on Palin’s family, please find these attacks authorized by Obama. Because you’re just spouting nonsense.”
In politics, when a campaign surrogate spits attacks against the adversary, it is taken as a “campaign attack”. It doesn’t matter is this surrogate talked on his own, the public takes his/ her words as the top campaigner’s words!!!! The same effect as guilt by association.
Please, read some good books about politics and sociology before you insult people !!
“As for the Katie Couric interview, seriously. Her own party came out and said Couric was more than fair with her questions.”
This woman Kathie Couric or whatever her name is, has been in the media for many years. Her interviews and TV shows are regarded as low class. Nobody really cared about her until she had the outstanding opportunity to interview one of the most popular women politicians in America. Most of her questions were typical “got cha’ questions with a nice smile that many said were “fair”. Come on! Any one with fair and objective views of journalism could see the biased way she interviewed Sarah Palin.
“
I can prove you wrong about faith and religion being two totally seperate things. Atheism. It’s the belief that there is no god, gods, deities, supreme being, whatever you want to call it. And that’s all it is, it’s simply a belief. There is no religion attached to the belief. There are no practices, no superstitions, no appeasing a “higher power” through a system of control to gain a greater reward or curry favor. Also agnostics is another example. Theirs is a belief that there is a god, gods, deity, supreme being, and that is simply it. There is no religion applied to that belief either. They just believe, and go about their lives as such. There no practices in these two beliefs, no place of meeting, no supreme leader put in place to come up with policy, etc…So again, Religion is a system of man made superstitions, practices, rituals based on the ideas, teachings of another person be they fictional or real. To that effect, Religion is effectively another name for a cult.
I could make up a religion based on the belief that Micky Mouse is our lord and savior. I could craft an intricate system of do’s and don’ts and a series of rituals that most be performed that will be designed to curry favor with Micky Mouse and ultimately when we meet our demise we will end up in a Disney animated movie as our great reward for being good on this plane of existence and live our new lives as animated Disney characters. I could also assign a series of designated “go betweens” who will be the apparent authorities on this religion to assist people in following the guidelines of this religion, and speak for the lord and savior in his absence.
To even further proof that religion is indeed a man made entity. We now call the “religion” of ancient greeks and romans myths even though they believed in an intricate networks of gods and deities, each governing over a specific aspects of life, and thus spawned a series of rituals and practices designed to curry favor with those beings in order to be granted some kind of reward in life, or in death, and avoid garnering their wrath and avoiding being cursed in life, or punished in death.
More proof that religion is a man made entity? The advent of the parable of life after death, IE The afterlife. This is not some concept that has simply existed throughout time as some free floating idea ingrained in the mind of man since he attained sentient status.
As for the Obama surrogate attacking Palin’s family. I’d still like proof of this. I have yet to see ANY instance of ANY surrogate, associate, etc… attacking Palin’s family. I’m still waiting for this proof that anyone associated with Obama in any official capacity and not some blogger[you can find dozens of attacks on Palin's family by bloggers on DailyKos] attacked Palin’s family.