At times I feel like it's just me against the world...

  • Sparky

    That’s our Girl!!!!!!!

  • mbander

    Does anyone believe that Senator Clinton would not have left her campaign to come back to work on this bill to be sure that those points above would be addressed?

  • badlybehaved

    Looks like Hillary has had to leave O’s campaign so she could go back to her home state and work on this too . Is the debate on for tomorrow?

  • just_an_observer

    i don’t believe that hillary would have suspended her campaign to go back to washington … she would have left the campaign trail to take care of her business, but that’s different than suspending a campaign (and making a press conference out of it).

  • badlybehaved

    But I think she did leave Obama’s.
    mbander: I honestly can’t say I know what Clinton would have done if she were the candidate. What do you think? I haven’t really been able to pay attention all of this.
    I do think if Hillary did the same thing nobody would theorize that she was avoiding the debates. Is there any reason to think McCain would have a reason for doing so?

  • inspirational1

    >Subject: [AIG Bailout]
    >
    > WISH I WERE THE ONE WHO CREATED THIS. AM LOOKING FOR HIM AND MAYBE
    >WE CAN GET HIM ELECTED..
    >
    >Hi Everyone,
    >
    >I’m against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.
    >
    >Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
    >
    >a ”We Deserve It Dividend”.
    >
    >To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000
    >
    >bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
    >
    >Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
    >
    >and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
    >
    >So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.
    >
    >My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
    >
    >’We Deserve It Dividend’.
    >
    >Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
    >
    >So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.
    >
    >Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
    >
    >That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
    >
    >But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.
    >
    >A husband and wife has $595,000.
    >
    >What would you do with $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?
    >
    >Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
    >
    >Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
    >
    >Put away money for college – it’ll be there
    >
    >Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
    >
    >Buy a new car – create jobs
    >
    >Invest in the market – capital drives growth
    >
    >Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves
    >
    >Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else
    >
    >Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
    >
    >who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
    >
    >that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
    >Forces.
    >
    >If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it…instead
    of
    >trickling out a puny $1000.00 (‘vote buy’) economic incentive that
    is
    >being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
    >
    >If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every
    adult
    >U S Citizen 18+!
    >
    >As for AIG – liquidate it.
    >
    >Sell off its parts.
    >
    >Let American General go back to being American General.
    >
    >Sell off the real estate.
    >
    >Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
    >
    >Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t.
    >
    >Sure it’s a crazy idea that can ‘never work.’
    >
    >But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
    >
    >How do you spell Economic Boom?
    >
    >I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Bill ion
    >
    >’We Deserve It Dividend’ more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
    >Washington DC .
    >
    >And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Bill ion because
    >$25.5 Bill ion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
    >
    >Ahhh…I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
    >
    >Kindest personal regards,
    >
    >A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic.
    >
    >PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it’s good for a laugh
    >

  • mbander

    badlybehaved,

    Obviously I can only guess what Hillary would do , but I believe she takes her job as Senator seriously enough to leave her campaign, and get back to Washington, to work on what is good for her constituents. This bill is THAT important. I believe they are all needed there.

  • clintonloyalist

    I respect McCain and Hillary for leaving the campaign trail to work on what is important for the American people. Obama and the news are concerned about tonight’s debate. To be honest, I dont care about the debate anyway. By now, everyone has a good idea of who they are voting for. Here is Obama’s big chance to prove he is nothing more than a talking head, but blew it for the debate. Hillary and McCain just proved to be the better candidates to turn words into action.

  • One4Justice

    Obama on the crisis: “As I said before, I think that one of the things we have to determine is how we can be most helpful. It’s my sense that the most helpful thing we can do right now is, uh, to let everyone know this is a sufficiently important problem. I can be helpful, and I am prepared to be anywhere, anytime. So, uh, I think the message is, if I can be helpful, I am prepared to be there at any point.”

    If he doesn’t even think that he can be “helpful” by returning to Washington and doing is JOB as a Senator, elected by his constituents to do his job instead of campaigning, how is he going to be “helpful” as President??? Even he himself does not believe that he makes a difference as a Senator!!! Why don’t his followers see this???

  • badlybehaved

    As I suspected, McCain will be at the debate and everyone who theorized that he was pulling a stunt by going to Washington has egg on their face. He actually got a lot of campaigning done while his campaign was suspended. You and are are being roped into paying for this bailout why shouldn’t John McCain be there?

  • just_an_observer

    ummm … regarding the “we deserve it dividend”, apart from being a good chuckle, the math is three orders of magnitude off. $85 billion dollars split evenly among 200 million people is actually $425, not $425,000.

    clintonloyalist – i care about the debate! i think you’re right though, most people have made up their mind … but not everyone. that’s part of the reason the debates take place.

    mbander – i want to hear more about why you think both mccain and obama should be in washington to help construct the bailout plan. as you know, i don’t think either of them should be there. if they should be there, what do you think each of them should be doing?

    one4justice – i read the quote from obama that you posted. did obama say that he doesn’t make a difference as a senator? it reads to me that he doesn’t think he can make a difference during the negotiations of the bill, but that he will return to washington when he can be helpful. what do you want his followers to see? don’t you think that people who are firmly backing obama (i do not consider myself in this camp, by the way) think he is doing the right thing? my question then is, what should the candidates do? how can they continue to run their campaign, satisfy their ‘followers’, appeal to the independents, and work on the bill? can they do all of these things? i think it’s an interesting juggling act (and, personally, i think that both obama and mccain are struggling with this considerably).

    in full disclosure (and i’ve written it elsewhere on this site) i am currently leaning towards obama, but i’m not a “troll” and i’m not what most would consider “pro-obama” or a ‘follower.’ i’m not here to convince you, just learn more about people’s views on both candidates. i’ve learned a lot about both candidates on this site, as well as the views and opinions of the people who contribute to this site.

  • One4Justice

    “did obama say that he doesn’t make a difference as a senator? it reads to me that he doesn’t think he can make a difference during the negotiations of the bill, but that he will return to washington when he can be helpful.”

    He said he can’t make a difference as a Senator during the negotiations of the most important bill since the Great Depression, but that’s not the same as saying he can’t make a difference as a Senator? Tomato/tomaato.

  • just_an_observer

    that’s too big of a leap for me. an extension of that logic would mean that any senator who hasn’t played a central role during the negotiations of the bill cannot make any difference as a senator. what about hillary clinton? she hasn’t played a central role. neither has mccain (he’s only got 1 day under his belt helping out, i don’t consider that significant. i reserve the right to change my mind, however, should mccain play a central role in facilitating the passage of the bill as things move forward). i still think that both clinton and mccain are good senators and can make a difference.

    i think your criteria for making a difference as a senator are too narrowly defined.

  • One4Justice

    Okay then. How about this: Obama doesn’t think he can make a difference on the most important bill to address the biggest economic crisis since he’s been in office. To me, that’s scary.

  • One4Justice

    I really don’t care if he thinks he can make a difference as a Senator on legislation to teach Kindergarteners sex education. If a Senator does not think he can be “helpful” by hotfooting it back to work at the Capitol when our Country is in a crisis and needs leadership, well, I don’t have any confidence in him leading the Country as President.

  • just_an_observer

    fair enough, i see your point.

    (although the reference to teaching kindergarteners sex education clouds your otherwise good point – that’s a debunked ad.)

    from my point of view, i think you’re over-stating the ability of any one senator to make a significant difference in the negotiation process.

  • One4Justice

    Actually, the Kindergartener issue has not been debunked.

    As far as one senator making a difference, the President seemed to feel they would—-he personally called them and asked them both to attend a conference with him to try and address the crisis. And the highest ranking democrat in the senate feels McCain’s opinion makes a difference—-he held a press conference in which he said so. So why doesn’t Obama’s opinion make a difference? If he doesn’t make a difference, shouldn’t he at least be trying as hard as he can to make a difference on the most important bill regarding the biggest crisis he’s faced in his career?

  • One4Justice

    Obama’s position that he’s not going to make a difference on the economic crisis bill reminds me of the voters that don’t bother to vote because they feel they won’t make a difference. It’s just really disturbing to not even try.

    Obama has no solid track record of leadership, and when he’s faced with a crisis where he could try and lead his party, the party which has essentially nominated him to be their leader, he doesn’t rise to the occasion by doing everything he can to be a leader. What’s up with that? It really bothers me.

  • just_an_observer

    i’d rather not engage in a debate regarding the kindergartener issue, so i won’t bite on that :)

    i do not mean to imply that either senator is incapable of making a difference in the negotiation process. my point is that i think the ability of mccain or obama to influence the process has been over-stated. personally, i don’t think mccain or obama should be there because they introduce what i perceive as an unnecessary layer of complexity in an otherwise difficult negotiation process. to put it more bluntly, their both spotlight hogs at this stage of the campaign.

    furthermore, i don’t think that senators mccain and obama have to be in washington around the clock to make a difference.

    with regard to the bill, mccain’s presence matters more at this stage because he is capable of working with other republicans to make the necessary modifications in the bill to ease the legitimate concerns of his fellow congressmen. if obama goes back there, he just looks like he is trying to take credit for something he didn’t do the work for [insert whatever reference you'd like here regarding what obama has taken credit for and didn't do the work for].

    i haven’t read anything that leads me to believe that obama hasn’t tried as hard as he can to make a difference on the bill and ensure what he considers core elements to the bailout. the same thing goes for mccain. i think they’re both doing what is best for their party and for the bill, at this stage of the process.

  • just_an_observer

    being a presidential nominee and leading a party in the senate are two different jobs. as far as i know, obama has only been nominated for the former. the same goes for mccain.

  • One4Justice

    Good points.

    What are your thoughts about the 20% earmark for ACORN, and about GIVING rather than lending the money to the very institutions that mis-handled the $$ in the first place?

  • just_an_observer

    i haven’t read that much about the 20% earmark for ACORN. i’ll have to do that on my lunch break!

    to be honest, this whole bailout is shocking to me. i feel like we’re playing this video game and we are just trying to hit the reset button. i understand that we have to do something, and that it would be unwise to just let banks fail. but are the jokers in congress the right people to provide oversight on this whole thing? i readily admit that i don’t understand the complexities of finance … but i’m not convinced the congress does either! that makes me nervous. i wish i had more confidence in both the democrats and republicans who are crafting this bill.

    despite my reservations, i remain optimistic that they’ll work something out and that there will be provisions in the bill to make sure we don’t repeat this again in 10+ years.

  • One4Justice

    ACORN has a documented history of voter fraud, and has been sanctioned for misuse of federal housing funds. Obama’s connection with ACORN has been very troubling to me. I don’t understand why the media has not investigated it more.

    Ayer’s hired Obama to work at ACORN. Regarding the Ayers/Obama connection, someone posted this very informative timeline at another place in this forum:

    “THE AYERS/OBAMA TIMELINE: (Version 1.0; a work in progress; dates are approximate)
    1987 William Ayers meets Barack Obama
    1988 Ayers solicits Khalid Al-Mansour to raise money for Obama’s Harvard law School education
    1989 Tom Ayers and William Ayers get Obama a summer job at Sidley & Austin (where he meets Michelle Obama); Ayers’ wife Bernadine Dohrn also worked at Sidley at about the same time as Barack and Michelle.
    1993 Ayers places Obama on Woods Foundation
    1995 Ayers makes Obama Chairman of Annenberg Challenge
    1995 Ayers hosts a coffee klatch for Obama’s political debut (Obama falsely claims this is when he met Ayers)
    2007-2008 The structure of Obama’s presidential campaign increasingly comes to resemble an Ayers-designed national “community organizer matrix” straight out of Maoist theory. This is not merely a presidential “campaign.” Obama’s organization is the first installment of an ongoing movement being paid for with tax-exempt contributions to his campaign, approaching half a billion dollars.
    2008Obama In response to ABC News, Obama tells a national TV audience he was “six years old” when Ayers bombed federal buildings, and they are only casual neighborhood acquaintances. A lie.

    It really bothers me the way Obama is constantly trying to downplay his longstanding friendship with radicals (not just one, but many!) , to the point that he flat out lies! What is up with that?

    Frankly, I find McCain to be a very disappointing selection too. At the end of the day, however, McCain may not be as intelligent as Obama, but Obama is so deceitful and manipulative that I’d rather have McCain than Obama.

  • mbander

    But you have to love Reid criticizing McCain (who has been painted as Bush III) for going up against the President’s plan.

    Days ago Reid said they needed to know where McCain stood on this bill. Yesterday he said McCain didn’t say much during the big meeting. Today, he is blaming McCain (who, remember – didn’t say much) for causing the whole thing to collapse.

    The more I hear on the news and online (I am an obsessed news junkie), it appears Obama was the problem at the meeting. (No teleprompter, I’m guessing) That ties in with his statement today where he said he would be of more use if he weren’t actually there.

    Right now, the Republicans bill looks like it has some merit. Not the total bailout proposed by Bush and the Dems. One thing that makes you believe the Dems’ bill is no good for us little people is their insistence that they drag the Repubs in. If it was so darn good, they have the votes to pass it – Bush is ready to sign it. They don’t need a veote proof majority. They could get all the credit – or all the blame, and that what makes me think it is so bad even THEY are embarrassed.

    This should not be a partisan issue. And it certainly should not reward people who got us into this mess either with a bailout or an earmark.

  • just_an_observer

    mbander – could you please clarify what has led you to believe that obama was the problem at the meeting? to be honest, i haven’t heard or read anything to support that argument. that’s why i’m curious …

  • One4Justice

    “But you have to love Reid criticizing McCain (who has been painted as Bush III) for going up against the President’s plan.

    Days ago Reid said they needed to know where McCain stood on this bill. Yesterday he said McCain didn’t say much during the big meeting. Today, he is blaming McCain (who, remember – didn’t say much) for causing the whole thing to collapse.”

    Excellent points! Love it!

  • mbander

    As I have said, I spend WAY too much time checking out thing online. The problem with this meeting is that Paulson begged everyone not to let people know how badly it went. So a closed door meeting became even more “closed door”. Therefore most of the info comes from unnamed sources and now that Reid, Frank and Dodd have settled on a version – blame McCain – they are circling the wagons to protect their candidate. Suddenly the info about the meeting shut down and the Dem talking points started up.

    What few details have come out seem to indicate that Bush gave the floor to Pelosi and Reid, who turned to Obama to speak for the Democrats. He immediately attacked the House Republican Plan and asked Paulson what he thought of the plan. The “contentious shouting match” began. Also described as “full throated discussion”. You see, apparently, the Great Uniter, the one who will be able to reach across party lines, isn’t much of a negotiator. Some of the reports came from people in the hallway. Obama then went on to say it would be better if he wasn’t there (my paraphrase), sort of admitting that he did nothing to help with calm negotiations. Apparently Pelosi and Reid deferred to Obama, who must represent “best” of the Dems, and things went south. There are always going to be battles between the parties. How you handle them is was distinguishes you as presidenial.

    All of a sudden we hear McCain was inserting presidential politics. What is no longer reported is that McCain was asked to be there by Paulson. THEN McCain suggested that both he and Obama suspend their campaigns and go work on this HUGELY important bill. Obama claims to have such a great economic plan, why wouldn’t he want to share that with everyone?

    His behavior is puzzling to say the least. If he had offered anything in the way of helping with negotiations, I am sure they would have asked him to stay.